Loyal Followers

Friday, October 28, 2011

Compulsion in Islam?

With all due respect to Associate Professor Dr Ridhuan Tee Abdullah - a well known academic, ulamak and preacher in Malaysia - I must admit of being astounded by his remark at a forum entitled 'Hudud: Its dilemma and implementation' organised by Malay-language daily Sinar Harian in Shah Alam on 25th October 2011. (His speech at the said forum can be viewed on YouTube.)

At around the 9th minute of the video, Dr Ridhuan  strongly asserted that Islamic law has to be implemented by force and there is no other way to educate the non-Muslims on Islamic laws than by force. Dr Ridhuan added that the most opportune time for “us” to do so was after the 13th May 1969 incident and lamented the fact that “we” had let that opportunity gone.

During the speech, Dr Ridhuan lamented the fact that non-Muslims, especially the Chinese, have a negative view of Islamic state and hudud generally. Speaking from experience, as a Chinese, Dr Ridhuan insisted that he knows the Chinese’s attitude towards Islam and that that attitude has not changed.

Firstly, I must confess that I am more than a little bit perplexed by Dr Ridhuan’s attempt to connect the racial riot of 13th May 1969 with the idea of an Islamic state and the implementation of hudud or Islamic laws in Malaysia.

The riot of 13th May 1969, as far as I know, had nothing to do with the desire by any particular section of our society, including the Muslims/Malays, for an Islamic state or for the implementation of Islamic laws in Malaysia.

If the mainstream version of the riot were to be believed, that riot was caused by the economic imbalances between the Malays and the non-Malays, giving rise to a deep and seething anger between the two sections of the society culminating in racial hatred. This was sparked by the unprecedented  victory of the DAP in the general election immediately preceding the riot and the subsequent victory march by the DAP. The whole situation was worsen by the election campaigns which were full of racial rhetoric and overtone and the killing of some Chinese suspected to be communists.

Never have I read about the riot being anything about Islam, Islamic state or the implementation of Islamic laws. Even the non-mainstream version of the riot has omitted mentioning anything about those issues being the possible cause of the riot.

As neither Islam, Islamic state  nor Islamic laws was part of the catalyst or cause of the riot, how could Dr Ridhuan surmise that the most “opportune of time” to implement Islamic laws in Malaysia was after the riot? There is an obvious lack of cause, causation and result here. I mean, Dr Ridhuan may very well say that 31st August 1957 would be the most opportune time for all of us to choose Islamic state as the governing model of our nation. I would certainly understand that remark because that was the starting point of Persekutuan Tanah Melayu as an independent state. But to relate the choice of an Islamic state as a model “after” the riot of 13th May 1969 is as perplexing as any suggestion that the most opportune time to implement Islamic laws in Malaysia would be just after the Bersih rally, for example.

Regardless of the lack of any tangible connection between the May 13th riot and the issue of Islamic state, Dr Ridhuan had, by his remark, obviously – or even perhaps, inadvertently – exposed the notion, which could be popular among the neo-right winged-nationalist in contemporary Malaysia that the May 13th riot was “won” by the Malays or Muslims.

Premised on this notion of a “victory” being achieved by the Malays/Muslims during the May 13th riot, Dr Ridhuan quite obviously thought that the Malays/Muslims, as the victors, could have imposed an Islamic state model on Malaysia or implement hudud/Islamic laws as the laws of Malaysia after the said “victory.” Conversely, the non-Muslims, particularly the Chinese, as the “vanquished”, would not have been able to resist such forceful imposition of Islam on them at that point of time.

That, to my mind, would have been the natural conclusion of Dr Ridhuan’s remark.

With all due respect to Dr Ridhuan’s scholarly position, I view that with sadness.

The May 13th riot has no victors. Malaysia as a nation, society and people were all losers on that fateful day and from that dark blot on our history. May 13th 1969 was an absolute failure of all of us as a people. It was a day when we had left our power to reason and rationalise and let our primordial kinship and tribalistic emotions to take over. It was a day when we discarded civility and civilisation and opted for barbarism.

Victory on the May 13th riot and its aftermath, in my opinion, could only be measured by our collective ability and willingness, as a people and a nation, to learn the lessons brought about by the riot and to take measures to address the causes which sparked the riot. Anything else is a failure.

The notion that the Malays/Muslims could have done anything, including imposing an Islamic state model during its aftermath, is a perversion and represents an almost nihilistic view of the riot, its causes and consequences. It is yet another unwelcome addition to the plethora of abuses to which the Malay psyche has been subjected all this while. As a Malay Muslim, I find it absolutely objectionable.

Dr Ridhuan’s lamentation that the Chinese, particularly, has a negative view of Islam and that their negative attitude towards Islam has not changed while at the same time asserting that hudud or Islamic laws must be implemented by force is, with respect, the peak of irony.

It is an irony because one of the main reason why the non-Muslims throughout the world have such a dim view of Islam is answered by Dr Ridhuan himself in his statement that Islamic laws should be implemented by force, regardless of any party’s objection to it.

To many, the attitude of some of our ulamaks and mullahs are reflective of Islam’s supposed intolerance of others, most particularly other faiths and not to mention cultures, breed and creed.

If Dr Ridhuan would stop and think at the repercussion of his assertion as such, he would realise that by making that assertion, he had managed to isolate millions of non-Muslims from the beauty of Islam, a faith that was premised on absolute respect for each other. Dr Ridhuan would do well to realise that the  Kharijite-ist approach towards maintaining Islam as the one and only faith does not bode well with Islam’s core teaching of mutual existence, respect and co-operation.

If we were to force the implementation of Islamic laws in Malaysia, by extension, why don’t we, as Muslims, force everyone to convert to Islam then, if I may ask? The answer is provided by God Himself, when in the Quran He says:-

“Let there be no compulsion in religion.  Truth has been made clear from error.  Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks.  And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)

Then He says again:

“If it had been your Lord’s will, all of the people on Earth would have believed.  Would you then compel the people so to have them believe?” (Quran 10:99)

Dr Ridhuan insisted that as a Chinese coming from a family who are staunch non-believers of Islam, he knew how the Chinese feel about Islam. His disdain for the parties whom he always describes as “ultra-kiasu” is well known. Dr Ridhuan may have his own deeply personal reason for that. It is not for me, or for anybody else, to judge him for that. But surely Dr Ridhuan should not let his disdain prevent him from being just. The Quran says:

“O you who believe! Be upright for Allah, bearers of witness with justice, and let not hatred of a people incite you not to act equitably; act equitably, that is nearer to piety, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is Aware of what you do.” Quran 5:8)

Muslims and non-Muslims must be made to know and realise that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was sent as a “mercy for all the world” (Quran 21:107). He was not sent to force or compel anybody towards Islam or Allah. God says:

“Nothing is (incumbent) on the Messenger but to deliver (the message), and Allah knows what you do openly and what you hide.” (Quran 5:99)

“So if they dispute with you, say ‘I have submitted my whole self to God, and so have those who follow me.’  And say to the People of the Scripture and to the unlearned: ‘Do you also submit yourselves?’  If they do, then they are on right guidance.  But if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message.  And in God’s sight are all of His servants.” (Quran 3:20)

Why then do we want to force Islam on anybody? Isn’t that un-Islamic?

The Quran repeatedly tells Muslims not to interfere with the affairs of non-Muslims. It also implored us to always be fair and just to them. Even when we argue with them, we are supposed to be civil and maintain good manners.

“So if they come to you, (O Muhammad), judge between them or turn away from them.  And if you turn away from them never will they harm you at all.  And if you judge, judge between them with justice.  Indeed, God loves those who act justly.” (Quran 5:42)

“Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and have disputations with them in the best manner; surely your Lord best knows those who go astray from His path, and He knows best those who follow the right way.” (Quran 16:125)

Throughout Islamic expansionism, non-Muslims, particularly the Christians and Jews, have always been treated with respect. No effort was made to force them to follow the Islamic way of life. It is exactly this tolerant approach which had driven even Western historian to conclude without bias:

‘The tolerance of Muhammad towards the Jews and Christians was truly grand; the founders of other religions that appeared before him, Judaism and Christianity in particular, did not prescribe such goodwill.  His caliphs followed the same policy, and his tolerance has been acknowledged by skeptics and believers alike when they study the history of the Arabs in depth.’ ( LeBon, Gustav, ‘Arab Civilization,’ p. 128)

‘The Muslims alone were able to integrate their zeal for their own religion with tolerance for followers of other religions.  Even when they bore swords into battle for freedom for their religion to spread, they left those who did not desire it free to adhere to their own religious teachings.’ (Robertson, as Quoted in Aayed, Saleh Hussain, ‘Huquq Ghayr al-Muslimeen fi Bilad il-Islam,’ p. 26).

Yet, every day we hear of mullahs wanting to impose this and that, not only on fellow Muslims, but also non-Muslims. In Malaysia, in newspapers and on the internet, non-Muslims read all sorts of accusations being made against them on a daily basis by none other than people of high authority. In articles written on blogs and comments made on such articles, curses are thrown at non-Muslims, names are called and various threats are made against them, needlessly.

Civility and dare I say, the way of Islam have been thrown out of the window by Muslims themselves.

Is it then any wonder why non-Muslims all over the world nowadays view Islam with negativity as well as prejudice?

Note to potential commentators: Please be civil and nice in your comments. Inappropriate comments in any way, will be deleted.

82 comments:

Anonymous said...

Art you forgot to commend that this Chinese ultra said that this country is meant for one race only and not for multi races.

Anonymous said...

Dude,

I am part of PAS youth, but I dont agree to hudud after thoroughly reading about it. But what can I do about it? or even we do about it? we just have to follow.. for example, if we object it even on FB, we might get kicked out of the Admin.

We give hints to PR that we dont want hudud, like insulting PR, but they seem to not understand it.

Anonymous said...

Is this Lithuan fella still a Chinese ah? He has disowned his own mother and father so as to accepted as a Malay. He uses "we" or "kita" to show this. Guess he has to SHOW he is MORE Malay or MORE Islam than a Malay to be a wannabe Malay/Muslim?

Anonymous said...

saya rasa tujuan dr riduan bangkitkan soal hudud secara paksaan semata-mata untuk menjauhkan non muslim daripada PAS.

niat dia supaya menggambarkan PAS akan melaksanakan hudud secara paksa

harap non muslim tak terpedaya dengan sandiwara dr riduan

jibam

Anonymous said...

Good rebuttal to RT!

If I am RT , I would be so "malu" that I will bury my head in the sand.
But then RT is an opportunist with no shame.

Anonymous said...

That Mulut Celupar is definitely helping UMNO to break up Pakatan Rakyat by keeping stirring up emotions and fears among Muslims and Non-Muslims alike. Except now that PAS still refuse to let go of the Hudud bait hook sinker.

This Mulut Celupar has been pouting hatred and kissing UMNO asses since day one, he even compiled all his nonsenses into a book too. He is definitely part of UMNO's 3Rs program-which is to instill racism, religious fallacies and blind worship for monarchs among Malays to consolidate supports for UMNO. So who is the ultra kiasu Chinese Muslim now?

If there is something that is equivalent to PERKOSA, I would say Ridhuan TEE CELUPAR is the right person and maybe he should create a CHINESE MUSLIM of PERKOSA so that he can gathers the muallafs to support UMNO

Leithaisor said...

Sigh... Ridhuan Tee Abdullah and his one-track "ultra-kiasu" attacks, delivered in a manner which hints that he is ashamed of the DNA in his body, his bloodline and his heritage.

Nothing wrong with wanting to embrace a certain religion different from that of his parents, nothing wrong with coming to a conclusion that there is something wrong with the ways of his ancestors.

But to speak as if he is somehow better-than-thou, or worse, holier-than-thou... sounds rather false and put-on.

And, as many have already pointed out, his "hudud by force" is not supported by Islamic teachings.

If I was his father or mother, this is one son whom I'd seriously consider disowning!

Anonymous said...

I have a Husky and

An American Eskimo, Think I found

my

Akita!!

Anonymous said...

i wish we won't even highlight this monumental stupidity. it's best to blank him out totally from all news.

Anonymous said...

do you automatically become a malay after conversion to islam?

IsOn said...

we don't need this is the type of person in this beloved country. can't we live with the mutual understanding that if you want to be respected, do the same thing to other people. even God himself never force anybody to follow His decrees. this man acting more than God.

burstaxon said...

Since he married a malay, this is one classic case of 'sudah masuk melayu' LOL

Anonymous said...

Oh! ART is a Malay who writes in English. Richone Tee is a biological Chinese who writes in Malay. ART is level headed while this Richone Tee appears to be more Malay than a Malay. Why?

He always condemn the opposition party, with DAP in particular. I wonder which part of Islam teaching associates religion with politics.

He always lament about the Chinese and non-Muslims misunderstand Islam. He is a good example to frighten the non-Muslims away from Islam.

I too, wonder if Islam teaches hate. The way he writes in his articles is a good example of preaching racial hate.

My conclusion: I wonder if he really understand any religion at all.

edward said...

I like your article. Gently and skilfully exposing this half baked professor for what he really is - a charlatan.

Anonymous said...

For every verse you can quote about the non-compulsion in Islam, I can also quote you verses that says the opposite from the Koran.

I think it is mischievous of people who quote verses from the Mecca period, but not dwell too long on those from the Medina period.

Meccan revelations are conciliatory because Islam was surrounded by Jews and Christians, and the pagans.

But, Medinian revelations are less so, because, by then, Islam has grown in influence and strength.

The tone of verses between these periods are very different.

Don't be fooled, people. Ridhuan Tee may be belligerent, but his grasp of Koranic principles are not too far wrong.

If I am wrong about this impressions, please correct me.

Anonymous said...

This Ridhuan Tee obviously has self-hate issues and a mass insecurity complex.

No matter how much ultra-racist bullshit he spits out, everyone knows he's a Chinese who sends his children to a Chinese school.

Anonymous said...

I am a non-muslim but during my university days was interested in RELIGIONS, read the Holy book and other religious books to gain better understanding of the different religions of the world. Today someone open my mind that there are two different revelations(Medinian and Meccan)coming out from the HOLY book. I am really confused....!! isn't there only ONE truth as revealed by the HOLY book ? And which one's is the TRUTH ?

Leithaisor said...

One Truth...and which is that Truth...

I am getting on in years now, and have seen a lot of matters related to such points.

I would not want to presume to tell you what the one Truth is. (Indeed, if you are Muslim, and I expound something which is not according to what the Islamic authorities deem to be their One Truth, they'd likely want to come after ME!)

But there is something which is generally true about "One Truth" issues.

And that is: A great many people will try to claim that they each alone understand and have knowledge of what the "One Truth" is.

I can appreciate that sincere religious scholars can honestly disagree over theological points, and scholars of different religions can hold different views. And they would earnestly hold that other views are wrong; their own being the truth. I have no quarrel with these.

The ones I despise are the charlatans who, with their oratory skills, magnetic personalities or plain simple ampu-bodek abilities, manage to gain traction with sufficient numbers of followers or with influential people, and hence have a platform from which they expound their "One Truth".

May even get to write a column in some rag which claims to be a "newspaper" and invitations to speak at forums. Perhaps rewarded well to help further the vile divisive agenda of a desparate politician.

Some may even manage to believe what comes out of their own mouths; others blatantly lie.

And that is a very common truth.

art harun said...

Dear Anon @ 19:05,

I believe you are reading those verses out of context. Please read the verses preceding and appearing after them to get the real picture. Knowledge of the events surrounding the revelations would also help you to understand them better.

Dear Anon @ 20:43,

There is only one Quran. Some verses were revealed before hijrah ie before the Prophet moved to Madinah and some others were revealed after that. Some verses may appear to implore Muslims to kill non-believers but those verses must be read wiyhin their context. God - and I mean every God in every religion - would not implore His believers to do wrong.

Anonymous said...

There should be no compulsion in religion and to say that hudud should be implemented by false reflect very badly on muslims. PAS should get a referendum from the people of Kelantan if they want to implement hudud in Kelantan. If they lost Kelantan, then what is the point of implementing it. I won't be surprised that even muslims themselves may not want hudud. PAS just assumed that the muslims want it.

Anonymous said...

Art,
Sure, I understand the concept of reading it in context. Same with any other book.

But the Koran is not like any other book. The Koran is a collection of separate revelations generally arranged in the order of the length of the suras.

Like the New Testament, the Koran was put together some years after the Prophet "left". And it was put together by his followers, from their own jottings and from memory as well.

And often times, there is no context, or the context can only be found by reading adjunct writings such as the hadiths, for example.

One cannot just read the Koran from the first sura to the last, and then hope to get a "story", unlike the Bible.

And yes, I agree that it needs to be interpreted according to the intention it was revealed AT THAT TIME.

Makes handling of scriptures a dicey matter.

Anon 19:05

Anonymous said...

NO respect for a phd dogtor kah !?

halim said...

Hi Art,
Always a pleasure reading your blog. I am also a chinese muslim convert thru marriage. This was some 27 years ago. I am up for senior citizen priveleges soon heheh. I didnt become an ultra, in fact I am slacking, if going by this shithole Tee's standards. Anyway, who gives a shit. I think, like some commenters have said before, this guy must have had some serious issues with his family/race/whatever sometime ago that melted his conjones. Serious enough for him to turn his back on them. I know for a fact he used to give religious talks to some rich born-again old folks in Damansara Heights about 10 years ago. Life-long muslims listening in awe to a convert..haih. I was invited many times but declined. I am comfortable with what I know and dont need another saudara baru punk telling me what I should do. Amen..

Anonymous said...

No matter how alim he is in Islam, the blood in him was once flourished by thouse "HARAM" things. His flesh,blood and brain received all the Goodness from these "HARAM" food!!

He has tarnished the good image of Islam.
Ambil cermin tengok muka sendiri,
Nampaklah kau urat-urat nanti;
Di muka serta di atas dahi,
Tanda-tanda seperti.......

halim said...

Anon 29 October 2011 01:08
Is your Islam about food only? Takpe la..saya paham.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

As a Chinese and a Buddhist, this what I have to say opposite Islam, Christainity. Buddha has been telling his disciples that he is a teacher and not a god. His main teachings is what a Buddhist should do is to do good things for peace.
As a Buddhist, we do not disturb the beliefs of other religions. Muslims and Christians has their divine beliefs and sometimes towards their extreme end, but this will not concern us, except when we are forced to convert.
Look at other countries whereby Islam is the official religion, Middle east a good example. there are so many unrests and problems. One should ask why. The answer is probably what is happening in Malaysia. Religion is being played up politically by the Political parties.
Riduan could be right politically about the chinese in Malaysia. The chinese in Malaysia is a suppressed and targeted race by the ruling political party. so being suppressed, the chinese, (excluding the Christians)their main concern is to continue to put food on the table and most important to give their children the best education. So religion comes only third.

Sptay said...

Our Dr. Says he knows Chinese bec. he used to be Chinese himself and that Chinese have a negative view of Islam. He may right or wrong about this, as I am in no position to say so. But within my family and circle of relatives and friends, there are many who are Muslims. Some became Muslims thru marriage, some were born Muslims bec both parents were Muslims.

Whatever their feelings are, you do not see the Chinese community riot or foam in the mouth or have a assembly to protest bec some of them decide to become Muslims.

Dr. T is the prime example of this, isn't it ? Imagine if Dr. T is a born Muslim, converted to another religion and started to "hentam" the community, what would happen...? I rest my case.

Anonymous said...

Art,

1st, I'm not trying to be blasphemous about any thing Islam.

I’m NO Islamic scholar but I do read a lot. So please do clarify for me about this;

‘There is only one Quran. Some verses were revealed before hijrah ie before the Prophet moved to Madinah and some others were revealed after that. Some verses may appear to implore Muslims to kill non-believers but those verses must be read wiyhin their context.’

& this;

‘Please read the verses preceding and appearing after them to get the real picture. Knowledge of the events surrounding the revelations would also help you to understand them better.’

So how do these explanations jive with the claim of ;

“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)

????

Isn’t this statement has to be read based on yr two earlier postulates?

Perhaps this lies the inconsistency of the two different schools of Medinan and Meccan Surahs in the Quran.

But then how could that consistency be LOST when there is only ONE GOD?

The Truth cannot be dependent on place, time & people. It should be perpetual & timeless, independent of ALL thing, lest the human thought!

Navi said...

Ridhuan Tee by being a Muslim, thinks he is automatically a Malay. What more can you say about this moron?

Anonymous said...

I bet RTA will be shocked to death if he comes to know that there are 50 millions Muslims in China and there regard themselves as Chinese and not Arab or Malay !

Anonymous said...

Stick to teaching, Bak Koot Tee!

Anonymous said...

haha..his parent are chinese, how come he born 'malay'? gene changes halfway eh!! nothing but an opportunistic professor, he knows who is his pay-master

Anonymous said...

..embarrassing! he expect muslim brother Professor Aziz to support him but instead he disagreed with him.

Recently, he and Perak mufti claimed there many apostates among malays and want anti-apostasy law. If he thinks he is 'so expert' in islamic affair, ask him to point out to us which verse talk about the anti-apostasy injunction in the Quran!!

art harun said...

Anon 10:42,

Let's just say a law provides:

No vehicle is allowed in any public park. Anybody operating a vehicle in a park shall be guilty of an offence and fined 5k.

A woman who was pushing her baby in a pram was charged under that law.


A man who drives an ambulance through a park in order to pick up a patient was also charged under that law.

The law is clear in its prohibitiom. We think we know the
principle. But we have to apply reason in order to find the true purport of that law. We have to see the purpose or the
mischief which that law tries to prevent before applying that law. Otherwise that law will lead to injustice and unfairness.

You can't look at the Quranic verses in isolation of other verses or take them out of their context with the circumstances surrounding their revelation.

For eg there is a verse which says smite your non-muslim at the neck. That verse was revealed before a battle. Surely one cannot use that verse to kill all non-Muslims.

Anonymous said...

only in bolehland where race is constitutionally defined. Dr M amended it and some ppl take advantages of it.

Strange!!, DR Ridhuan blamed non-muslims but he did not blamed DrM,to get some answers, he should asked him for comments

Ipoh said...

Maybe the following articles can provide some understanding to Anon 10:42 discussion above

Protecting our right to religious freedom
…are we doing better than previous generations?


Extract from the articles………
Freedom is an absolute concept. One cannot be half or two thirds free. One either is or not. This is key to understand when we look into God’s commandment regarding absolute freedom of religion, for all.
2:256 There shall be no compulsion in religion ….
Despite this clear command so many people (RT is a good example) compromise this God given right of others if in a position to do so, in smaller and greater ways. History of mankind carries a grave testimony to this fact.
This article hopes to encourage reflections on the subject to avoid repeating mistakes of previous generations, who enforced religion on others in various ways.
To understand what “no compulsion in religion” really means, we first need to sort out what constitutes ‘religion.'…………….

Read the whole article here

Anonymous said...

To be honest, i think indonesians are more God-fearing, they follow the islamic tenet of 'there shall be no-compulsion in religion'.

Before we talk about what constitute 'islam religion', can we discuss political islam? there a different, right!

Ipoh said...

Anon 19:06
Political Islam?

Maybe the following articles can shed some light.
Just one clarification – you will find that the Quran perspectives are TOTALLY opposite to RTA or the prevalent Malay Islam/UMNO/PAS/Jais political agenda.

The Islamic State - Quranic perspective
Our freedom, our responsibility
Human rights in Islam
Principles of Western Democracy and Islam

Ipoh said...

Sorry for the missing link above
Click here for the articles

Anonymous said...

to many, tee is a 1st class clown. i'm baffled he is frequently given a live slot on national tv. many also seems to be in agreement with him, judging from the crowd in his talks.

theprofessor said...

Sad to say that majority of Muslims are not blessed with deeper knowledge of Allah and tauhid. So they argue or articulate using only their brain. I understand what Dr.Ridhuan Tee was trying to arrive at but majority of Muslims are "scared of death and bedazzled by this world".
They won't or can't understand why Allah spared most of the Muslim countries from natural disasters or gave Muslim countries much of the world's wealth.
And for Muslims who are afraid of the bad Press for Islam, don't bother. Islam is from the beginning of time and Allah doesn't need anybody to 'spin' for him.

Timothy said...

That was very narrow-minded of him. To even connect May 13 with the chance of imposing hudud law would make him completely isolated in his own fantasy world.

Stupidity 1, Malaysia 0.

Anonymous said...

The sisters-in islam complained that PAS k'tan hudud(some of it) goes against human right.Some of the punishments are extra-quranic(not mention in Quran) eg :punishments for apostasy and lashes for drinking are not mentioned in Quran.

Before Dr Ridhuan talk about implementation by'force' ,(since he is also an ulama,) can he verify whether sister-in-islam claims are true or false??

art harun said...

Dear Professor,

You said: Sad to say that majority of Muslims are not blessed with deeper knowledge of Allah and tauhid. So they argue or articulate using only their brain.

Two things here. Fristly, how are Muslims going to have deeper knowledge of Allah and tauhid if they don't use their brain? Secondly, how else do we argue other than using our brain?

Do you mean to say that to have deeper understanding of Allah and tauhid we just follow whatever the mullahs say and discard our brain and power to reason?

If so, could you please tell me where is it in the Quran which says part of Rukun Iman is to blindly follow what people before us say?

Ipoh said...

Dear Professor (Tok Guru???)
God deems human beings who do not use their minds worse than animals, as understood from this verse:
(7:179)We have committed to Hell multitudes of jinns and humans. They have minds with which they do not understand, eyes with which they do not see, and ears with which they do not hear. They are like animals; no, they are far worse—they are totally unaware.

The religion of our parents as preached by scholars, imams and mullahs educates us not to use our intellectual faculties in religious affairs. This education is spread through some false hadiths. Purportedly, the use of the mind in religious matters would lead us astray. The majority of Muslims uphold this sort of belief even though it opposes the Quranic teaching:

[2:170-171] When they are told, “Follow what God has revealed herein,” they say, “We follow only what we found our parents doing.” What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided? The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.

Recommend to read an article on the subject No Blind Faith

Riduan kopi O said...

Ridhuan Tee China bodoh. Memalukan melayu dan islam.

Dia nak jadi melayu tapi jadi melayu bodoh macam PAS.

As they say a stupid friend like Ridhuan Tee is worse than a clever enemy.

With friends like Rihduan Tee who needs enemies?

This muaalaf dont understand Malay islam.

Malays are gentle and gentlemanly. Malays are not arab. Hudud is not suitable for Malays because we love women, appreciate beautiful women not enslaved them like arab men.

So syariah is meaningless when malay women goes out to work every morning, drive their own cars. In Saudi Arabia, arab women cannot even drive or go out alone.

Women are easily tempted so to let them loose like Malay women and then them whip them with syariah or hudud is illogical.

Rihuan Tee should remain an ancestor worshipper. He is embarassing liberal malays.

Anonymous said...

Art,

Good analogy about the car park prohibition.

Now here lies the dilemma; how to interpret the religious, & for that matter any, laws AS stated!

Interpreting according to contextual-wise &/or in sum total of the rule-book.

Too rigid, we ended up destroy the true essence of the TEACHING.

Too lenient, the TEACHING is been leaded for abused.

& there r many examples throughout the world history, lest of all those recent cases within bolihlands.

Where to draw the line?

There was a talk on TED Talk about how to interpret & manage the rigidity of any laws. (Sorry, can't remember the link, Can someone help?)

The presenter used an example of hospital cleaner to highlight the problem.

Most of the time when a family member suffered some trauma, be it disease or accident, the other family members would most likely 'camped out' at the visitor hall. This happened most of the time, past any visiting restriction & the cleaning schedule. & this can sometime takes up days.

Now the janitor has a problem. Should he/she forgoes cleaning the hall while the patient's family members slept-in? Doing so he/she is not conforming to the roster dictated for the work to be done. If he/she insists on doing the cleaning, then people within the hall would be disturbed.

Where is empathy? Where is common sense?

The choice of using a janitor to cast this example is to showcase educational level is not the issue. The issue is our OWN human instinct of compassion towards others, especially when the others r in distress.

So any rules r make to be bent, but with caveats.

The guiding principle is the compassion of love that we have within our heart towards others, irrespective of colour & believes.

With that, any rules, be they religious, cultural, societal can be overcome.

The ONLY problem is the exerciser of that compassionate principle. What's his/her objective? From the heart &/or 'ada udang di belakang batu'. There r many, especially the political kinds.

Now the tough question, is Islam as practiced by the Malay M'sian has that intrinsic human component? Or has that component been drummed down by the extremists within the pact, such that to fan it would be consider traitor to the religion?

I rest my case.

(BTW, Ipoh, do look up that TED article for yr own enlightenment).

Anonymous said...

["...The research discovered that the Malays in these sub-ethnic groups were genetically composed of some Proto-Malay (orang asli Melayu), Semang and Indian DNA, with at least 20 per cent Malay and and 52 per cent Chinese DNA. ..."] - Professor Zilfalil Alwi

Since Malays are 52% Chinese, I'm convinced by 'Prop' Ridhuan Tee Abdullah that Malaysias problem is because of Cina like him. There are many more where he comes from! :))

(Cina Kengkang)

art harun said...

Anon of 30/10/2011 @ 20:07,

Only God knows the truth. And He has promised us that the truth will prevail.

As human beings, we can only do our best to unravel the truth and to do justice in accordance with His exhortations and injunctions. But we are not doing our best if we do not use the greatest gift that he had given us, human beings, ie the power of reasons.

He is the most compassionate and forgiving. I am sure if we do our best and still we are wrong, He will forgive us.

But try we must.

Anonymous said...

He takes everybody for a ride, DrM himself is a medical doctor, he knows race is related to gene. He amended the constitution to empower himself. Do you think Dr Ridhuan does not know he is a chinese? he just take advantage of the amendment.Only those who dont use brains believe him.

.. the foreigners are laughing.My iranian student fren say this,.. no matter how much he adopt arab custom or able to speak Arab, a persian will never be an Arab

Anonymous said...

Personally I don hate any religion. It is the people of that religion that makes me wonder what exactly their religion teaches them. And THAT my friend make me wonder what good is that religion when its people are acting, behaving worse off than those without any believes.

art harun said...

Anon of 31/10/2011 @ 10:45,

Which amendment are you referring to? As far as I know, DrM did not amend the definition of "malay" in the fed consti. It has always been like how it is now since day one.

Anonymous said...

art harun

Yip ! you are right, he did not amend on definition 'malay'.but there were many changes(amendments) made to constitutions during his time, design to empower him.

Anonymous said...

The PAS top executive councillor recommend that 'the punishments in civil law should be made as tough similar to hudud as crime deterrant'...interesting proposal!

Jeremiah said...

Dear fellow commentators,

The whole heart of the issue facing Malaysia and cropping up in this affair is NOT Riduan Tee, his genes, character nor any religion.

The key word is COMPULSION and whether a human being (whether you are atheist, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu or Jewish) can be forced to become more spiritual (or approved of God) if he/she adopts certain outward customs and practices.

The opposite of spirituality is compulsion/tyrany/force/legalism. The law can never make a person a better human being, it only ensures that sins of commission are not committed. Sins of ommission (doing good, giving love, charity) can never be supervised or publicly enforced.

Only the most wonderful human acts are done outside the glare of organised religion. Becoming a Christian for me is an earth-shaking event but for my non-Christian neigbour or relative, it is nothing. What matters is the fruit of my faith. Am i a better neighbour, am i more considerate, more kind?

The Internet is the most effective conversion tool. It is free and it is fair for all to see: A tree is judged by its fruits. Just look at the fruits of all the religions of the world: you will quietly observe wihout any bias that for those religions whose faithful followers can be counted as 70%-80% extremists, confusionists, terrorists, hypocrites in all their personal lives are the religions that preach to a false and evil God/being.

So the question of compulsion is already a sign of confusion about spiritual matters. The consequence (fruit) of confusion is hate, violence and murder.

We all know that the Devil's aim is to kill, steal and destroy. Whether by democratic means or by force, he will try to do it but God has already defeated the devil on his own terms so now he is after human beings. Which is why the world is in such political and economic turmoil.

Anonymous said...

Jeremiah, Hello!! the 'word' compulsion' does not mean force to be more spiritual, it mean freedom to choose your belief.people cannot force to you to leave or join others.

Ya! Ridhuan Tee will be more respectful if he refrains from making remark like 'forcing..' and now say human rights is a front to sanctity of islam (malaysiakini)

mitchell said...

Being a non-muslim, it is indeed heartening and imformative to note the comments raised, and in the manner it is being raised: mature, civilised even though there are different views...keep this up for sometimes amongst all the darkness, a small flame is always burning...there is indeed hope that all Malaysians can live together peacefully.

Anonymous said...

Ridhuan Tee Abdullah who??

Ah Pek said...

Arty , challenge RT for a debate on this issue, though I bet the bugger will has his tail between his legs like the last time.

Anonymous said...

All religion teaches good, but somehow the followers are the ones that always, without fail demonstrate the wrong negativity to the rest. It is not that we do not understand or we do not want to understand, just that action speaks louder than words.

Anonymous said...

anon 17.07. Nobody can beat human being's ingenuity,..not too late to learn from history. In spanish inquisition, they were driven by political and religious reasons to 'purify' the heretics. The protestants persecuted the catholics and vice-versa in the old days, they could come up all sort of excuses

Anonymous said...

Art Harun,
Thank u for ur article. Complex issues made simple. Vague issues made clear and most times crystal. May u be bestowed with wisdom and words that would open the hearts of people like me.
Do keep writing and educate the masses.
Take care of ur health - body and mind.

Ellesse said...

It is unfortunate you wrote to mislead and distort. You quoted selective verses disregarding a huge corpus of literature. Please read a tradition of Islamic books. There is no compulsion to force non Muslims to believe and profess islam. It's distinct from imposing criminal sanction. Its has always been the state jurisdiction to impose criminal sanction reflecting the value of majority not withstanding the objection of minority. Otherwise no criminal sanction can be imposed. Traditions from prophetic and sahabah's period to Fatimid period to Andalusian, ottoman and current period like is saudi show that Islamic law being implemented in Islamic states and subject non Muslims to it whether they've assent to it or otherwise.

So stop misleading. Just read the traditions in plethora of Islamic books available. If you can't understand just google Wikipedia for elementary reading. For instance google the crime of apostasy. There's already ijma'. All the sahabah's ulama including Shafii Hanafi etc etc are unanimous on this. But somewhere down the line there's an Ustaz art harun who pick selective verses gave his own opinion believing he holds the whole truth and belittle people like dr Ridhuan. Don't forget that there are hordes who believe and want hudud especially from pas. Hadi even said the first thing he'll do as a ruler is to introduce hudud.

So read. Your write just show your ignorance.

Anonymous said...

I thought of resting my case, then in come this comment of one pseudo-woman (I don’t even want to spray dirt on the namesake term lady).

The many dichotomical & many a time contradicting Surahs of the Quran r well know fact. Thus, the classification of the different schools of Medinan and Meccan Surahs in the Quran by the later ulamas/scholars(???).

There consist of the many arguments about reading the Holy Text contextually or in sum total. Some even include the surrounding socio-political milieus of that time to interpret the underlying meanings. Many of the so called traditions in plethora of the Islamic books did just that.

But among these ‘man-made’ excuses, the Truth is lost!

The Truth lies within the compassion that The One has built within our mind, by giving us the power of emphatical reasoning.

It's perpetual & consistently simple. Most of all its only guiding principle been our compassionate mind.

With that, any educational background is immaterial. Just do remember, Prophet Mohammed himself was not educated & yet from him, out growth the Islam.

The sanctity of the laws, any laws, is important. But must the set of rules be so rigid such that it becomes irrevocable? Even Prophent Mohammed himself had bent many rules, as claimed to be spoken by Him, to propagate the God's messages.

Here lies Hudud’s dilemma – if Prophet Mohammed can be flexible with the God’s rules, why must his followers so ‘uptie’ about the rigidity of ‘these rules’?

God doesn’t need rules for his/her followers to believe in him/her. Only human does!

Anonymous said...

ellesse, wow! now you interpret yr way-.. apply only to non-muslim.Read and understand carefully,dear. why dont you say yr holy book talk only about percepts on non-muslims??.Maybe grand mufti of Egypt is wrong, he say 'there shall be no-compulsion in religion for muslims', maybe 200 million muslims of indonesia are also wrong and you are right, maybe shia belief is wrong and you are right.. go aboard and widen yr horizen

Ellese said...

Dear Anons of 2nd November,

The fact of the matter is that art was selective. He should have followed what his legal training taught him. He should have distinguished the corpus of other verses. Then give a complete balance picture. If he had done that he would have realized that he is incorrect in applying the verses and able to distinct between criminal sanctions and profession of religion. Discussion of religion should be dialectic and not spun for personal or political interest. This is wrong and does not benefit anyone.

art harun said...

Dear Ellesse,

I have gotten used to you appearing on my blog off and on to accuse me of being misleading and of distorting facts and whatever. It is also part of your bag of tricks to insinuate that I am a spinner and that I have political or personal interest.

Oh, not to forget, that my write up refelcts my ignorant. Well on this Ellesse, I never confessed to be the cleverest person on earth. But I try my hardest.

If you think that there are other versesin the Quran which Implores the imposition of Islamic laws or way of life on non-Muslims, (which I had, for my political and personal agenda, deliberately concealed and not mentioned them), I would be most obliged if you could enkighten me and my readers of them here. If you please, write an article about them and e mail it to me. I promise I would publish it unedited.

Let's have your take ln the full "corpus of other verses". i am sure all of us would love to learn from you and your knowledge.

Since you also accused me of being selective, could you please show how I was being selective and how had I quoted those verses out of context.

Let's have a discourse on this in a proper manner as the Quran and Allah implore us to do.

To accuse me of misleading and distorting the words pf Allah in the Quran is akin to you accusing me of being a munafik and a kafir. I take that seriously. i am sure you know Allah's punishment for a person who wrongly accuses a fellow Muslim without proof.

But personally I am not too bothered with your accusations. i have gotten used to you and your vile hatred of me.



Similarly,

Anonymous said...

now now Art - don't lose your cool :)
we must never let our tempers get the better of us - half our cause is lost if that happens, youthful temperaments aside.

Anon @ 09:42 - WELL DONE!
keep up the good work and engage engage engage!

art harun said...

*re-posting this as the last one contains too many spelling mistakes.

Dear Ellesse,

I have gotten used to you appearing on my blog off and on to accuse me of being misleading and of distorting facts and whatever. It is also part of your bag of tricks to insinuate that I am a spinner and that I have political or personal interest.

Oh, not to forget, that my write up refelcts my ignorant. Well on this Ellesse, I never confessed to be the cleverest person on earth. But I try my hardest.

If you think that there are other verses in the Quran which implore the imposition of Islamic laws or way of life on non-Muslims, (which I had, for my political and personal agenda, deliberately concealed and not mentioned), I would be most obliged if you could enlighten me and my readers of them here. If you please, write an article about them and e mail it to me. I promise I would publish it unedited.

Let's have your take on the full "corpus of other verses", to borrow you favourite phrase and word ("corpus"). iI am sure all of us would love to learn from you and your knowledge.

Since you also accused me of being selective, could you please show how I was being selective and how had I quoted those verses out of context.

Let's have a discourse on this in a proper manner as the Quran and Allah implore us to do.

To accuse me of misleading and distorting the words of Allah in the Quran is akin to you accusing me of being a munafik and a kafir. I take that seriously. I am sure you know Allah's punishment for a person who wrongly accuses a fellow Muslim without proof.

But personally I am not too bothered with your accusations. I have gotten used to you and your vile hatred of me.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Dear Art,
I understand this Dr Ridhuan is a Senior Lecturer with the Armed Forces Defence Academy (ATMA). From his wrtings and views it is clear that he has been brain washing the students at ATMA. How in the world can the government alllow this? As an ex serviceman, I know of many senior officers in the Forces have similar views like Dr Ridhuan. In my view this is not Dr Ridhuan's views but that of the establishment and by extension that of the present government.
How else do we surmise the complete silence from ATMA or the government.
Dr Redhuan who hold this perverted and sadistic views should be given official space to speak. This person surely is detrimental to the racial harmony in Malaysia.

Anonymous said...

Peace greetings,
This is an extremely well written article which goes to the heart of the din. Imposing compulsion removes the freedom necessary for the individual to make that choice freely to surrender to God. If walls are too strongly built between the faiths, how are people to come to Islam if that has been the path appointed to them? May the way be open for you.

Anonymous said...

Art

Stop puffing hot air on your blog (though it is your absolute right, since it is your blog).

I DARE YOU to :

openly, publicly issue a challenge to the esteemed Dr. Ridhuan Tee Abdullah to a public debate at a public place open to all to watch and televised to all to watch.

Issue the challenge in Malay, since Dr. Tee appears only fluent in that language.

Issue the challenge via mainstream media and write to Dr. Tee personally and to his campus administration. Make sure he receives notice of your challenge to a debate and has an opportunity to reply.

Do you DARE to do that?

Anonymous said...

good idea, public debate ,Art. Ask Dr Ridhuan in Public about his support for anti- apostasy law and its punishment for apostasy, ask him to point out the exact verse and where it is mentioned. Ask him to explain how human rights are a front to erode the sanctity of islam.

Go to Syeds blog(outsidethebox)entitled 'ayatollah pun tak tahu Quran'....one occasion, a director of IKIM said the sentence of stoning ppl to dealth is found and written in Quran during a 'live telecast'TV talk show.He(syed) ask IKIM director where exactly in the Quran does it mention 'stoning adulterer to death'.The director gave the weirdest answer to mahadzir Lokman (compere)..' it is better to discuss these things behind closed door'..

art harun said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
art harun said...

Anon of 4 November 2011 @ 12:40,

Let me get you correctly.

In order to prove that i am not "puffing hot air on my blog", to borrow your phrase, I have to challenge Dr Ridhuan to a debate. Is that what you are saying?

Why should I, pray tell me. He expressed his opinion. I expressed my differing opinion respectfully.

Why must it lead to a public debate? I am not interested in winning an argument. I argue not to win. I argue to express a differing opinion. That's all.

I don't care whether you agree or disagree with me. It's not my motivation. And I am not interested in whether I am a better debater than him or otherwise.

Get it

Anonymous said...

Art, you has spoken in yr blog, it's up to Dr Riduan to refute your view or argument, why shld you challenge him to debate

Anonymous said...

Hi Ipoh,

Here's the TED Talks link;

http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_our_loss_of_wisdom.html

Thanks Walla for digging it out.

Anonymous said...

I have grown tired of this.. now Art, you are a lawyer, now tell me how do I get out of Islam.. or there is no possibility?

citizenkei said...

erm...to mr anonymous who posted on 28 oct 2011 14:09: do you even know what a Chinese ultra is?

To Art:

I first stumbled upon your blog a few years ago and read one or two entries at the most and thought to myself:" This is one of the better blogs and writers we have here in this sad country, but just a bit long-winded though. "

Fast forward a few years into the future, curiosity and boredom(although I don't actually have the luxury of much free time, I just hate going to sleep) brought me back here and again I'm thinking:" This is definitely one of the best blogs we have here in this mess hole, just a tad long-winded though. Must be an old man. "

Keep up the good work Pakcik.